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Old 10-28-2004, 08:01 PM   #1
Neori
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Question Question about video cards

Hopefully very soon here I'm about to move into the modern age with a video card that can actually handle the graphics technology used in current games (i.e. DirectX 9.x). I've been using an old GeForce4 MX440 card, and a little after I got it, I found out that it really isn't all that good... but I just haven't had money to get anything newer/better.

A while back, when EQ first got the target rings added, there were problems with certain video cards working with EQ. Namely, ATI-based cards that either could not display the ring or would display it oddly. Or so I heard from numerous sources. And not so long ago, I read somewhere on here that a more recent version of the GeForce video drivers was causing some texture display problems in EQ.

So right now I'm on the fence about what video card to upgrade to, given a limited budget (and probably under $150ish). I'm looking to get something worth the money, that will last a little while at least, and also doesn't have too many problems these days. Does anyone know of any problems with ATI cards in DirectX9 games, like EQ? Or any problems with any GeForce cards? I'm trying to skip the "budget" SE, LE, non-Ultra types of cards, but would love some advice on what to shoot for.
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Old 10-28-2004, 08:26 PM   #2
Aramil Dannodel
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Post Re: Question about video cards

Well, Neori, I'll be perfectly honest with you...I run a GeForce 2 MX/MX400, as I have been for the past two years (haven't had the opportunity to upgrade, yet...but that's mostly because I made the mistake of buying a pre-built system, so I'm just making a new one from scratch, once I get the money), and I know precisely how you feel.

Although my strongest guess is that you aren't Canadian, I would suggest stopping by at NCIX.com and browsing a little bit, there.

I, personally, would recommend looking into ATI's products, but that comes from the fact that most of NVidia's mediocre and lower-end quality products are all fairly close to the same, where as ATI's tends to be a better buy for your money. And also, because I've always liked ATI more, since I've mostly only had problems with NVidia, in the past. If anything, I would recommend the following model: ATI RADEON 9200 128MB DDR AGP8X W/ TV OUT RETAIL BOX. This one, specifically, ships from their site for $142.03 in Canadian funds (plus shipping, of course, which generally isn't much for a two-pound product), and I know that prices in American funds are usually significantly cheaper.

/shrug Just thought I'd let that hinge for you. I hope someone else can give you better insight, if they have any for you.

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Old 10-28-2004, 09:21 PM   #3
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I got my Radeon 9600 Pro for about $135 American including shipping. I have very few video related problems running EQ. No, I can't run shadows (lol), but neither can systems costing 3 times what mine did! I can run pretty much everything else maxxed out. I don't think there is any "perfect card" that runs EQ with no problems at all. More important then a top of the line video card or CPU is RAM! Put as much as you can in. 512 meg is a puny minimum that will always cause problems. 1 gig is much better. If I had a MoBo that would support it, I'd run 2 gigs!
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Old 10-28-2004, 10:24 PM   #4
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Mogur:
I know what you mean about the rest, the CPU and memory. From my experience, there are three major bottlenecks in a system: CPU, RAM, and video. It varies by application as to which is the most important, and some games that use a lot of AI calculations need the CPU and RAM more than video power. But right now I'm after something that will give me a better framerate, since what I currently have is really hurting my eyes.

Aramil:
I've been seriously looking at ATI's Radeon 9600 to 9800 line, and I'm leaning towards a Radeon 9600XT 256MB one that I found for about $140 (plus whatever tax and shipping). A lot of the benchmarks on Tom's Hardware Guide show that most of the 9600+ ATI cards area lot more powerful than similarly-priced Nvidia cards and only get out-performed by the really top of the line stuff, like the GeForce 6800... which I can only afford in my dreams. I still have a few days before I can make any purchase, so I'm still analyzing the choices.
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Old 10-29-2004, 12:59 AM   #5
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I am running a 9600 XT 256Mb with AMD 2700+ and 1Gig of memory with no problems, just a small bit of lag in the bazaar/middle of an MGB party during primetime in PoK. No shadows (just like Mogur), but I haven't talked to anyone that is able to run with shadows on.

My personal choice is ATI due to two bad experiences with nVidia. Though I know several people that will not use ATI due to bad experiences.
Looks like you are doing your homework I would suggest checking Pricewatch for lowest pricing, just be careful with some of the companies that sell there as not all the companies are very reliable. Again, my personal preference is NewEgg as they have reasonable prices and I have always had very good to excellent service from them.

Good luck in your search.

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Old 10-29-2004, 01:08 AM   #6
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Don't be fooled!, EQ (and EQ2 ) is ment to run on Nvidia based cards. I haven't looked up prices yet, but I will, and will edit this post in the morning.

+ the best Nvidia driver for EQ1 is currently the 61.76 download page

( my shadows are just fine, in EQ1 and EQ2, currently running GeForce FX 5700LE )

Last edited by Taleisin : 10-29-2004 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 10-29-2004, 02:46 AM   #7
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I was in somewhat of the same predicament as you were. My Graphics card fried on me (GeForce 3 Ti500) and I was forced to buy a new one. Luckily, that graphics card was a special request, and there was a GeForce 2 something or other integrated graphics card on my MB. So I was still able to play EQ.

But, back on topic. I bought a ATI RADEON 9200 w/ 256MB RAM from www.newegg.com. I payed $67 for the card. $71 with S&H. I think I got a very solid deal.

I did look up comparisons. NVidia's competition to the Radeon 9200 is the GeForce 5200. I did comparisons between the cards before I bought them and I got mixed reviews. The GENERAL consensus was the GeForce out performed the Radeon on benchmarks, but every user comment I read swore by the Radeon outperforming the GeForce on games.

I have been using NVIdia for a while now, so I figured I'd buy the ATI. Test it out for myself, per say. I'm happy with my decision.

Something else to keep in mind, I heard from multiple, very reliable sources that the new/high-end graphics card of today (GeForce 6800, etc..) only slightly outperform the older model cards, but newly made. IE: A GeForce 6800 will only outperform a GeForce 5200 (made in the last 1/2-1year) marginally. In essense, older chipset cards that are newly made will offer the best 'bang for the buck'; the least price for the bigger jump in performance.

Besides, for me, the 9200 was a step up from what I had. Which I was having 'minor' problems with if anything. Partially due to me cranking the settings up so high though. So I had no problem paying $70 for a higher graphics card. I didn't want to blow $200-300 on a card that I solely used for EQ. So I got the ATI Radeon 9200.

My personal suggestion is to do the same, if you are looking for the least expensive graphics card. Of course, if you are willing to spend a little more, go for the Radeon 9600, etc... or the NVidia equivelant.

Between the two. It seems you are doing your research, so just go with that. My presonal experience is NVidia works well. It is easy to get drivers, and their cards are reliable enough. I got a good 3 or 3 1/2 years out of my card. And for ATI. I've heard they are reliable. But I can't say anything from first hand experience (Talk to me in about a year )
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Old 10-29-2004, 06:09 PM   #8
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nVidia has not been nice to me. The PCI card I bought a long time ago because the computer I'd been using had integrated graphics just got slower and slower (with the same game, mind you). Now if I try it it doesn't even work. Currently I'm using a Radeon 9700 Pro and its been VERY reliable. I've never had any visual problems, never had any driver problems with newest drivers at the time, and the only thing I liked better about the nVidia cards was how nVidia had proprietary stereo 3-d drivers that worked with my E-D glasses. Also, the similar performance nVidia cards tended at the time of my purchase to cost a lot more. The 9700, as of spring a couple years ago, cost $300. It was, at that point, either a step below the 9800 Pro or was the highest. nVidia's cards offered poorer performance and cost about the same. I went with the ATI. In another computer I've <i>built</i> I used a 9600XT. Its able to run about the same stuff that my 9700 Pro is, albeit slightly slower. I can run shadows in very low population zones on my 9700 computer, but the hassle of switching them off has me just leave them that way. I also use old models because it zones SO much quicker like that (doesn't make much difference to shadows what model it is, same results with detaileds). Probably a memory issue.
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Old 10-30-2004, 06:59 PM   #9
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Actually, the new generation cards from both makers (nVidia 6xxx and ATi x800, x600) blow away all older cards in every aspect. I wouldn't buy a nVidia 5xxx line, because they are not as much up to par against the ATi equivalent (9500+). Since the new gen cards are hard to find, and have very high price, I would definitely go for a ATi card 9500 or up if you are looking for something that is cheaper but still performs well. I have a Geforce ti 4600 that still runs well... that is when I actually played EQ heh.

Tom's Hardware Guide was mentioned earlier in the thread, and is a good resource for knowledge. Pricewatch was also mentioned. It's more for ballparking the prices, but I have used both newegg and Zipzoomfly and have been satisfied.
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Old 10-31-2004, 12:35 AM   #10
Neori
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Thanks for all the advice on this guys. It's made me feel a lot more confident about possibly switching to an ATI card if I want to go down that road.

I only have one more problem though. A short while ago, I had access to a GeForce 5700 LE 128MB video card to try out on my computer. As I believe I mentioned above, I'm using a GeForce4 MX440 128MB (and it's only SDR memory on there too) card, and it's set to 4X... which I think is the highest my motherboard supports, with AGP 2.0. When I tried the 5700LE card, the system powered up, but didn't boot to BIOS, just a black screen and none of the usual system beeps from the PC speaker to indicate that anything was even happening that I just couldn't see. So I'm a bit concerned that my motherboard is just too old to handle the newer cards.

Does anyone know anything about the PC Chips M920 series motherboard, or know of any sites that would have info on what is compatible with it? I've checked my manual/docs, checked the manufacturer's website, and even tried to email their tech support. I cannot seem to find out details about the motherboard beyond that it supports AGP 2.0 (as stated in the manual/docs) and that the highest setting in the BIOS I believe was 4X. I need to know what voltage the AGP on this runs on. My S.O.'s motherboard, a newer SOYO board, says it supports only 1.5V AGP cards (it does not support 3.3V, but also doesn't mention support for 0.8V either). I read on ATI's website for example that their newer cards support AGP 4X (1.5V), AGP 8X (0.8V), or Universal AGP 3.0 bus conifiguration (4X/8X), as stated on the ATI page for the Radeon 9600 Series. I'd hate to get a brand new card, only to find that I'd have to also buy a new motherboard, processor, and memory as well as reinstall everything (Windows included) to go with a simple video card upgrade.

I know that's pretty a technical question to ask, but I'm hoping someone knows or knows someone who knows, or knows someone who knows someone who knows.
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Old 11-02-2004, 03:38 PM   #11
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I performance increase between AGP 4X and 8X isn't that great of a jump, and 4X should really be sufficient. I haven't seen your other components here (maybe I just missed them), but I'm sure you could find an updated motherboard for not very much (40USD maybe) that would still accomodate your old hardware, especially if you are running with an AMD CPU.

EDIT - did a quick search for you mobo and learned that it's a P4 board, but that's not a huge problem. It says 4X is the AGP slot (which you already said), and seems that 4X means 1.5V (I didn't know that before, and didn't really understand that ). You really shouldn't have to get a new motherboard for this, as it just means that you won't be able to run the card at an 8X setting (it will be stuck down at 4X).

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