Kudane

My thanks to Baelish from Casters Realm, he got his log parsed and posted faster than I did. (but we both beat SOE, hehee)

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Absor: Welcome to the chat.

Absor: Thank you for coming. We'll be taking questions about the upcoming enhancement to melee classes. If you haven't read the outline for those changes, please visit EverQuestlive.com Dev's Corner to read up on the proposed changes. Ask us anything you'd like about the new system or melee in general. If we don't have time to answer them all here, we'll be recording them

Paul Carrico: Evening everyone. I am Paul Carrico, Assistant Lead Game Designer on EverQuest. Or as others have known me, Frizznik the Gnome.

Todd Schmidt: Hello, I am Todd Schmidt, Assistant Lead Programmer on EverQuest. I am known has Hobart on Test Server.

John Troy: Hey, I'm John Troy, Game Designer on EverQuest

Oliver Smith: Hello everyone. I'm Oliver J. Smith, the Lead Designer of EverQuest Live & Expansions. Others may remember me as Valtron.

Jamey Ryan: Hey, I am Jamey Ryan, Lead Programmer on EverQuest.

Ryan Barker: Hi, I'm Ryan Barker game Designer for EQ, sometimes known as Rytan.

Absor: *Wilhelm_Lany* Hi. I have a three-fold of questions. 1) Can we expect any changes in terms of agro on demand; instant agro generation, without waiting for an opening.? 2) how will increasing the endurance bar work, in terms of getting higher endurance, and endurance regen? 3) how will accessing these new skills once the opening is available work?

John Troy: 1) Yes, the system we're getting allows us to create abilities that aren't tied to openings. We will be giving warriors more options for aggro generation

John Troy: 2) The endurance bar is based on your melee stats and level. Regen is currently based on your level

John Troy: 3) There will be an extra UI window to put hotkeys for the new skills, which will be accessible with keyboard shortcuts

Ryan Barker: we're still tuning specific values so we don't have actual numbers set in stone yet for endurance costs and regen.

Absor: *Galidin* How do you intend to maintain the desirability of knights in your new melee system when they already produce far less damage then pure melee, while you fix core issues such as taunt which have been the strong suit of knights?

Ryan Barker: There's several aspects of the melee revamp, one aspect of which is the new opening system. There's plans on addressing other specific problems with melee in addition to the new system.

Ryan Barker: The goal is to create a balance where knights and warriors both have equal desirability in different situations.

Ryan Barker: We're really excited about all the new changes we're making and we're anxious to get them out on test where we can tune them and see them in action.

Absor: *Coronis* When are you anticipating these changes going live on regular servers?

Oliver Smith: Our changes are expected to go live during the December 16th update that'll be happening next month. We also plan on introducing them to the Test Server very soon. Feel free to log on the Test Server and use /feedback to tell us what you think about our changes. We'd be happy to hear everyone's thoughts on the systems that are being created.

Absor: *CeNo65-FOH* How will acumen, zing and others spells with similar effects, pertain to the new changes?

Ryan Barker: We're removing the old invigor type effects that restored stamina entirely for now. It's possible we'll be adding endurance regen abilities later on but for now we don't want melee to be any more dependant on getting buffs to make use of the new system.

Ryan Barker: We decided to do that because it's really an entirely new system, and has very little to do with how the old stamina bar worked.

Absor: *Hamen* Will these Melee changes effect everyone from level the first level on?

Paul Carrico: You will be able to take advantage of the new melee opening system when you begin receiving new combat abilities at level 20.

Absor: *Illydth* As far as openings go, will any class be able to create an opening for themselves or are openings only created by certain classes?

John Troy: You will be able to take advantage of openings that you create. Some openings will work for everyone, but there's no link between your opening and someone else's. There are no combinations or dependencies on other players.

Absor: *ScootD* How can you acquire the new melee abilities?

Ryan Barker: The new abilities will be acquired by taking a "skill tome" to your guild master and he'll teach you the skill. Most of the basic skills will be available on vendors, while a few high level ones will be drops. Right now we're planning on giving almost all of the sub 60 skills on merchants and having the 60+ skills using a system similar to the parchments quests in Planes of Power. From there on out we'll most likely make use of the same methods that you already use to acquire any other type of item.

Absor: *Lendaor* are many openings going to be based on mob placement? Such as from behind the mob as opposed to being in front?

Ryan Barker: None of the abilities currently take advantage of your position relative to the mob, so no you won't have to be behind or in front of the mob in order to take advantage of the new abilities.

Absor: *Badu* Will pure melee have their current DPS lowered to take into account the extra dps from this system?

Ryan Barker: No, there will be no decrease in melee's DPS to account for the increase from the new system. We're creating the system in such a way that they'll fit in right on top of the old one.

Absor: *Subayai* Will disciplines be overhauled are or you simply transferring them over to this endurance system? Most melees only use 1 or 2 disciplines, because the others serve no useful purpose in their current state.

John Troy: We'll be making changes to some of the disciplines that aren't very useful, as well as giving them different timers. You will still only be able to have one discipline going at a time

Absor: *Flaash* How long will the play have to take advantage of an opening, and how will excessive server side Lag (elemental planes) handle this?

John Troy: We're still tuning it, but our goal is to make the strategy be in what skill you decide is best to use at the time, not in fast-reaction or twitch gameplay

Absor: *Sabrosia* HOW will these openings be presented? For instance, will a new window open - and we click a button - will we have to issue a command?

Todd Schmidt: There will be a UI indicator that pops up when you can activate an opening. And yes, you will be clicking a button as opposed to typing in a command. Once you activate the opening, that same window will show the opening effect.

Absor: *Dranix* will jumping to negotiate obstacles or people remove from my endurance pool for combat and disciplines?

Ryan Barker: Jumping will drain a portion of your endurance yes, but it's a relatively minor amount.

Absor: *Tenludar* How will skill points be handled for warriors that have already progressed in the game? Will a level 65 be expected to spend hours doing nothing but training to get their skills up?

Ryan Barker: You won't need to use skill points in order to learn the new skills, they're either on or off, there's no period of bringing them up to full power so to speak.

Ryan Barker: The only thing you need to do is give the tome to the guild master and you'll have the full skill.

Absor: *Drewon-FoH* Will there be any new AA skills that are tied to, or create, these new melee abilities?

Ryan Barker: There will AA abilities that will effect the new system yes. We don't have a hard and fast list for it yet though.

Absor: *Barney* it was mentioned some openings are available after certain skills go off, like parry. What about classes who do not have certain abilities. Like monks for example who lack parry.

John Troy: For monks, it's based on dodge, block, and riposte. We're tuning the rate that they happen based on the skills each class has.

Todd Schmidt: In addition to these melee changes, we have made a few others separate from this. All warriors regardless of level will now mitigate a percentage of all incoming melee damage. Monk will also now be able to dodge when being hit from behind, this should aid their pulling abilities.

Absor: *Voldeth-BB* How will the new system affect a melee's role? Clearly it will support the tanking of a warrior, but what of the monk? What will their role be?

John Troy: The melee skills aren't limited to the dps or defense of the player that uses it. There are debuffs and group affects as well. The goal with the skill sets is to provide more of a role for the pure melee during combat

Absor: *VALBARR* It has been stated by Ryan Barker that position won't affect the skills, but in the chat overview, it states that position can change the effectiveness of certain skills ?

Ryan Barker: The reference to the positional aspect in the doc on the website was an error. We're not going to have skills dependant on position.

Absor: *Dakkon* how many moves are you planning to introduce?

Ryan Barker: We're planning on over 20 skills for each class to begin with and we'll be adding even more in the future.

Absor: *KyrosKrane* I apologize if this was asked before; I missed the first half of the chat. Assuming an extended fight (e.g., Luclin bosses), how many openings per unit time could each player of an appropriate class expect?

John Troy: We're still tuning it. We're looking at a few per fight, though. We're aiming for making each opening more important, not something that is making you hit an extra 20 keys a minute

Absor: *Avelariel* Can we make absolutely clear, these openings are solely for warriors, rogues and monks? Unless that's not the case

Ryan Barker: Yes we're only adding the new opening system for warriors, rogues, and monks. The discipline system revamp will be for all classes that currently make use of disciplines though.

Absor: *Woody_GU* How exactly does this re-establish balance? Why does this constitute a "fix"? And not a bandaid on top of a semi-broken existing system?

Ryan Barker: The new system is only one aspect of the melee revamp, there's several other changes in the works for them as well.

Paul Carrico: You can quote Barker in the comics Woody.

Ryan Barker: One of the major advantages of the new system is allowing us to more easily add new abilities to the pure melee classes.

Ryan Barker: There's several aspects of the existing system that are going to be adjusted, I'd keep an eye on test server if you're interested in more specifics.

Absor: *Arlos-LOS* If openings are tuned to block/dodge/riposte, what happens if we're not tanking? This would seem to be most applicable to monks & rogues. How do we activate the new abilities if we're, say, fighting a raid mob and doing DPS?

John Troy: There are other events that trigger openings based on your regular attacks. If you're in a situation where you aren't tanking, you'll get more of those kinds of openings.

John Troy: You have a chance to trigger an opening on any attack or special attack

John Troy: NPC's also have a chance to "fumble," creating an opening that anyone fighting it can take advantage of

Absor: *Layn* How will the new skills affect aggro if successfully used?

Ryan Barker: There's several new abilities planned that will effect aggro generation. Some might increase your aggro while others might lower it.

Absor: *Adorae* just fix taunt? LOL

John Troy: Saying that taunt is the one and only issue is fairly shortsighted, I think. Pure melee have very few strategic decisions to make, don't get new abilities with an expansion the way casters do, and don't get as much from an item with both hp and mana. These are all issues that people have raised, and this system gives us a way to address them.

Absor: *Razorback* Will debuff disciplines stack, or will having more than one person using that make it a wasted use?

Ryan Barker: It really depends on the debuff. Generally there will be enough different abilities you can take advantage of that you'll have several skills that will be useful even if you have several of the same class present.

Absor: *faithcrusher* When an opening exists, you will be offered more than one option? Like one that would be aggressive in nature and one that would be defensive?

Todd Schmidt: When you are presented with an opening, you will have to make a decision on what type of ability you want to use. There will be many per opening type. And there are a few opening types.

Absor: *Depen_Hoss* Will class specific items be adjusted to add endurance, or will we need to look for new items?

Oliver Smith: We do plan on adding endurance stats onto existing items. We plan to have this done at the same time the new system is introduced next month (Dec. 16th).

Absor: *Kilbane_luc* Will we have to buy a new expansion to use these skills too?

Paul Carrico: This is a free feature. It will become available to everyone!

Absor: *Illydth* VERY important question: Since we have a chance to trigger a special attack with every attack, does it then mean that haste and dual wielding and double attacking means more "openings"?

John Troy: More attacks will help a little, but in general they scale around delay

Absor: *Aeria* Question, this sounds great and all and maybe I missed this point..but if the openings are part of our text..thats ok for groups but major raids where the text OFTEN becomes sluggish means we will miss the opportunity to strike...is there going to be a visual clue?

John Troy: The opening is going to display on the UI - you won't have to watch your textbox for them

Paul Carrico: Another thing for warriors that some of you may have noticed on test is that you will now get a return message when taunt is used, so you will know if it was effective.

Absor: *Aalek* Will the abilities have "cast" times? Can they be interrupted by the NPC? Can pure melee NPCs use the abilities against players?

John Troy: No, skills, like bash, kick, and taunt, are instant.

Paul Carrico: The taunt return message will be for everyone, not just Warriors.

Absor: *Bumpper-Test* Will Taunt be increased for warriors?...Its a simple question that I know a lot of warriors want to know

John Troy: Yes, we're giving warriors skills to better gain and keep hate.

John Troy: We're not changing the way Taunt itself works. We're adding a new skill that doesn't require an opening, as well as others that do, to address the issue.

Oliver Smith: There have been a few questions with regards to upcoming expansions and features. At this time we cannot go into detail about what's in development. However, please make sure to watch the EverQuestlive.com site for more information over the next few weeks.

Absor: We're hoping to do this on a more regular basis. It's a lot of fun for us, and hopefully provides some useful information.

Absor: That's all the time we have. We should have a transcript posted on the site tomorrow. Thank you all for stopping in!
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Comment as you will But. Please remember too keep comments polite and non-flaming.. I understand some will like and dislike these changes.. but this is not a flame SOE post...

please just keep that in mind =)

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.: Have a question? Read this :.

[ F.A.Q ]

Azrael

I am all for change and equalization. But in my opinion, here lately, it seems that changes have been made for reasons that are really unclear and in some cases slap those of us who have played EQ for 3 years across the face. Take the recent maxing out of "sense heading" to all players. What about all of us who wore out our keyboards by hammering our sense heading hotkey over and over and over? We wasted all that time and effort perfecting a skill that now everyone has. When some of us started, we had to fight "Hell Levels" at 25, 30, 35, 40, 45 and 50. Did we get any equalization for the time and EXP we lost when those levels were downgraded? NO. Its to the point where Verant/Sony should just make everyone a Level 50 at start up and to hell with the lower levels. Don't worry about pissing off all the people who bought EQ when there were no expansions, who have well been paying every month for 2 to 3 years now. Because what we had to do back then has been changed so drastically that the people just starting are playing a easier, friendlier and DIFFERENT game then we did. You are making the game easier...too damn easy if you ask me. You have taken away too much of the charm and adventure of the game in an attempt to make leveling easier and quicker. And again, you are basically telling all off us who started this game that our efforts, the time we spent going through the harder parts (hell levels and such) was wasted. Well thanks alot. It seems to me that the changes have been made in an attempt to get more "adolescent" players. You are not looking for adult players anymore. Good strategy.

And now, lets give all the meleers an edge. Let's not do anything though for the Paladins and "bastard" classes. I mean, you have give the Paladins such great and powerful spells, right? And now with our inferior spells, you are going to make us inferior meleers. Good plan! Who wouldn't want to play a Paladin after you do this? Think about it for just a second. In trying to make the pure meleers more desirable, you are going to make playing a Pallie unsavory. Ther is NO REASON to play one after you pull off this end run. When a Paladin cannot melee with the Warrior, and since a Paladin already cannot heal as well as a Cleric, why would anyone play one? You are doing to the Paladin what you did to the Druid many years ago...screwing them over totally. A "tank" and a Cleric in a group make a Paladin totally unnecessary AND unwanted in a group. Thanks alot.

Now I understand there is a need to "equalize" the classes, to give no class any advantage over another. But everytime you guys do one of these "fixes" you totally screw over another. To be honest, after you do this one, why don't you just delete all the Paladins. After you totally screwed the Druids a few years ago, you should have deleted them. You have basically made them nothing more than taxi cabs after all the changes you made. But when you screw over the Pallies, you may as well destroy the class totally. No one needs them anymore.

Thanks again for giving it to me again..

Oh and one other thing...before you start adding mor eproblems, how about fixing the existing problems..the lag, the freezing and the ungodly zone time its taking to zone. I bought a new Sony Computer equipped with hardware above and beyond what is necessary for this game, and I can barely move at times since the last patch. How about we fix what isn't working before we start adding more stuff that won't work?

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One love, one heart. Let's get together and feel alright.

mortis42

I had written this long retort, but cleared it and decided to not post it.

Usually when it comes to debating classes with a paladin, there is not changing the paladins mind. Paladins are a stubborn class.

The only part I am going to keep is polite advice:

You know they nerfed monks pretty damn hard to help make plate classes, including paladins, better. It pissed me off pretty good. But did I go around griping and whining about it? No. I started playing another one of my toons. After leveing him up 57 levels I realised how much I missed my monk and appreciated the skills that he does have instead of fretting over the ones he lost. Having so many of my friends in game sending me tells about the monks in their groups and how they rathered it was me helped some too.
Paladins are one of my most respected classes when in a guild group, but also my least favorite to group with in a pick-up group. Why? Becasue the paladins in my guild bust their ass and do amazing things and the paladins in my pick-up groups whine when I pull aggro, whine when the cleric heals at less that 50%, whine about the weather, whine about the way the mob sounds...do you see where I am going?

Intead of investing all that energy into complaing and feeling inferoir, try acting like "the little guy." You know take what you do have and do more with it than you though possible.
What made me such a good monk was not the skills of my class, but the determination of my playing.

Don't take this personally Azrael, but if you really don't think that your class is all that good, then try playing another that is better in your mind. In my mind, a well-played paladin is a powerful and awesome class.

Angelcrusha

One thing I have to say in response to the "changes". There are some good things, and some bad...this is going to change the playing style and overall format of the game drastically for melees. Casters haven't had much to change really, a few minor changes here and there, but their playability remained the same through the years. Additionally, I don't foresee this as being a "fix" per se', more of an experimentation on the game itself. There will undoubtedly be good additions to agro for warriors and dps for other melee and hybrid classes, yet as an overall balancing issue, this doesn't change the fact that their "fix" is turning melee into a semi-casting class now. I did not choose the melee lifestyle so I could become a caster, but then, that's just my take on the whole thing. In the end, it all comes down to whether or not this is going to be more of a pain than it is going to be fun.

Also, in response to the paladin "nerf" cry I heard in a reply (and this is not a flame, only a clarification), I must say that paladins are still a very viable tank. From what I am seeing, there have been no modifications done to that class aside from possibly a few changes with your disciplines that sound to be a promising upgrade...Basically, you have to look at it from a warrior's perspective. We have had no spells, and thus, we have always been one dimensional. We Tank, we're not dps, we're not pullers, we're not anything except a meat shield. When another class with pulling abilities, healing abilities, tanking abilities equal to our own, and even dps abilities (against undead), we have become second rate in a field where we were intended to be the top dogs. If a warrior is placed in his intended place as lead tank, a paladin is then left with pulling abilities, healing abilities, dps (undead) abilities, and basically a nice secondary tank. No warriors around? Pick up that pally, he'll do the job nicely. No monks, bards, or rangers around? Pick up that pally, he's got pacify and can handle his own in case of adds. Need a backup healer? Pick up a pally, he has LoH and can spot heal in an emergency. You get my point....

Anyway, I guess everything will have to be seen in a playable field before we can really begin to rip it apart =o)

AC

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Veteran Angelcrusha Explosivo : 65 Halfling Warrior
Boks Pyrate : 48 Gnome Enchanter, GM in JC, Master of all Trades
<Ethereal Realms> on E'Ci

Xylass

ok i got out of EQ 2 years ago i was a very good cleric my old freinds on where happy i was starting up once more but thay needed a 65th war for raids and wanted me to do this so i start up and try some thing new

All i have see sence that time 6 mounths ago is lots of how Bad wars are off in the game the biggest thing is i want to go kill a 40th mob (ps i am 57th) i need to go get a healer of some kind to do it at all

a war can't fight alone right now at all as a cleric i could do it badly all i hope for is that with this "fix" i can try and kill blues

Seillican 57th warrior

PS with all that is bad with wars i can't stop playing my new one i love the Control i now have in a fight

Tafkamb

I am a noob by most of your standards as I only started playing EQ in February. When I started I have to be honest a warrior was never going to be part of my playing experience. Looking at the changes I may well change my mind. The thought of just bashing things with no real dimension to the character seemed a bit boring. What they are suggesting is adding a new dimension to this type which sounds kinda cool. From my perspective it isn't a button bashing type as a chanter or cleric is but adds a nice twist to an otherwise stand and bash mode of play.
As for a Pally being unwanted I have to say they will always be welcome in groups, even more so if it involves an undead zone and having a pally in a group to be able to pull a mob off of a caster who gets aggro is always a blessing.

just my 2 cents worth but I look forward to seeing how these changes pan out and there may well be a warrior soon in Team Taf

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"If I'm crying, I'm Dying"

Fozzik

The one thing I notice that concerns me a little is activating the new skills. They talk about a new window that will contain melee hotbuttons... and a pop-up window that will need to be clicked when there is an opening. I may be in the minority... but I almost never touch my trackball when I play. I do everything with the keyboard, and I hope they make some kind of provisions for people with my playstyle. If I'm using my keyboard like normal, and yet have to scramble to get my hand on the trackball and find my pointer in time to click the "opening" window... it could be rather annoying to play my warrior.

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Elder Fozzik
65 Feral Lord
Solusek Ro

onetwo1212

They said the keys for the abilities will be able to be accesed from the keyboard.

I for one welcome this change. IT is about time they did something to one of my char to make it more interesting to play. My main, being a necro, has gotten the shaft alot this year. After the fixed the pet exp, they nerf the pet to where he only hits about once every 10 swings. Then they completly killed solo exp in most places. I started playing a warrior to have some mindless entertainment. Now that I have gotten used to playing tank, I can add in the extra abilities.

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Boonzy 57 Necromancer <Nobility of Norrath>
Goil Ngears 31 Gnome Mage
Jobana 47 Warrior
Threefour 24 Monk

hex22

hey guys,
im one of those that has been playing since day 1, and have played everything at least once. In my opinion if you want to make pure melee a viable class how about this....take away the bandage cap..let pure melee bandage to 100 from lvl 1. I dont think that would be to much to ask. hell while we are at it take the weight restriction of the monks also....probly 1of the 2 main reasons people get tired of playing a melee is having to drag a healer around after ya. And that crapy weight restriction yeah you can get bags that reduce weight but how the hell do you buy equipment when you cant even loot to much cause it will bog you down...well anyway thats my 2cp's

sc2kmayor

Wow, a lot to consider, especially for the Wizard who will never have a manaburn that rocks...but wait....maybe after they let warriors and other melee classes start kicking butt and keeping aggro, (I pull taunt off a warrior with one of my half-a$$ed nukes?) maybe then they can work on giving me an the other classes something that changes our way of life as well...

Really tho. I've read a lot into this I think, but I never played a warrior, I didn't want to go auto pilot on attack and every once in a while stop watching TV to press the kick or bash button, but dont get me wrong, give me an opportunity to play Street Fighter and beat the crap outta someone and I'm all over it still.

Chun Li > Low Light Kick > High Hard Punch > High Hard Kick > *Stun* >> WOOT Spinning Flying Kick!!! Just had to wait for my opening.

>>> I may finally play a warrior after all.

And I dont care what anyone says. Can have your taunt at 250, beg at 250 and the fastest weapon in the game, When I pull taunt off a warrior, I'm always happy to see the Paladin in my group grab it back supah fast. Imagine the posibilities to improve Pally options once the warrior is once again the Lead Tank.


Oh yeah >> Bandages --- I agree totally. Warriors should start with 100 in bind wound and be able to bind to 50% until 25th and then uncap to 75 then uncap to 100. (course I also think I should be able to find consumable mana potions.)

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Kudane

Please remember too keep comments polite and non-flaming.. I understand some will like and dislike these changes.. but this is not a flame SOE post...

please just keep that in mind =)

laertise

Heres my 2 cp being a pally, I don't get to tank in raids unless the warriors die and I'm fine with that now I'm not gonna be desired as a tank for groups. This kinda sux, but I was in BoT the other MT 65 warrior a cleric necro druid and shammy and me (64 pally).
The warrior couldn't pull and the druids harmony kept failing but being fairly experienced in BoT I can almost single pull the whole zone. So I was pulling mobs the warrior was tanking, now I did mention that I can almost single pull the whole zone well a few times I pulled adds, the first thing the add did was pounce on the cleric. Let me tell you how happy the cleric was that I was on it stunning that mob and pulling the mob off them. So I guess in reality now we are gonna fullfill a secondary tanking roll but its gonna make us alot less desirable to groups. Heres why, a pally=slim to no dps and if you have a warrior who has more HP than a pally more AC than a pally and can hold arggo just as well as a pally. Well now i'm obsolete the the spot I took in a group was to tank and hold arggo Most groups aim for something like this. Main tank, Healer, Slower, DPS, DPS, off class. The only spot I'll have in this break down is the off class where every other class has a specified spot. Say hi to the new ranjas of norrath.

Tank (warrior), Healer (cleric,druid), Slower (chanter, shammy, beast) Dps (beast, rogue, ranja, mage, whizzy)(possible exception could be and SK as dps),off class(any of the afore mentioned and add SK and pally to that)

Laertise

Kudane

Laertise,

while I understand your posistion as stated above, you are forgetting a few things..

When I do a Mistmoore Dungeon, I LOVE and almost require a Pally to be Puller/Tank.

This is also true of many raid level mobs where they are undead or have minions that are undead.

You can feel bad that they are going to give Warriors something to help bring their play ability inline with hybrids and casters..

Or, you can remember that you are a holy warrior, and that your fight is with those who souls are trapped here, tormented, and want to drag others into their abysmal hell. and for that you are the absolutely best equiped to handle it.

/bow

laertise

Prior to Ldon and mistmoore when was the last time you did some undead grouping Kudane. Maybe camping shards in the grey or something. My appeal comes from the fact in BoT the enchanter can slow when the mob is inc and never worry about being hit, and I don't loose arggo at all let a whizzy overnuke I just drop a few more stuns. Upon more thought I don't think this is gonna change much it may cause a bit more hate to warriors but should arggo slip they still have to wait for a proc or opening now to regain arggo while all I have to do is hit a fast cast stun. Yep upon reflection I don't think this will affect me one bit just make playing a warrior a bit more interesting.

Laertise