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Old 10-09-2002, 11:55 AM   #1
Stregar
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Default Nerfed: Manaburn, CH, Rods, & Monks - Your thoughts?

Anyone care to discuss these changes to be made?

If you don't know what I am talking about, go HERE


MB, personally I think just Kunark Dragons should be resistant to MB, no need to nerf it that bad.

Monks, no comment, never played one so I can't comment with any accuracy.

CH, Won't affect anyone but Furor from FoH, hehe

Rods, This is a BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD idea....I wish this wasn't true.
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Last edited by Kudane : 10-09-2002 at 12:07 PM.
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Old 10-09-2002, 12:17 PM   #2
Kudane
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rod change is not that bad... think about it this way

Cleric: "need new mod rod 2"
Mage: "inc"
Mage types "/target Cleric"
Mage Cast Mod Rod 2
Cleric: "thanks"

Cleric doenst even have to turn around, or stop healing.. since its summoned to his inventory..

this would be great for focus Items too... then when I am wearing them on my mage i could still give them out..

I hope they expand this "targeted summonable" to other items..

Kudane
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Old 10-09-2002, 12:52 PM   #3
Stregar
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Default =)

Counterpoint:

Rod is now 1 charge, and can only be used 1 time, every minute.

CR's just got mode a hell of a lot longer =(

Thoughts?
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Old 10-09-2002, 01:01 PM   #4
Dolby
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CR's are not too bad now that clickers are easyer to get for clerics.
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Old 10-09-2002, 01:10 PM   #5
Stregar
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Default =)

Point made, never thought of that =P
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Old 10-09-2002, 01:24 PM   #6
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Default Famous last words...

I visited the site and I was kinda struck by this line...

"Development Update, Game Balance

Just like everyone else, we're people. People make mistakes."

Verant making mistakes... Say it isn't so!
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Old 10-09-2002, 01:31 PM   #7
Dolby
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Default Re: Famous last words...

These things have been in the game for a very long time. Just wonder why it took them this long to fix it. Fixing problems with the game that have been in it for so long will be met with a great deal of resistance.

I do agree with the changes and see why they are needed. They just should of been a lot sooner. I guess better late then never lol.
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Old 10-09-2002, 02:14 PM   #8
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Default Changes

Personally, I agree with the changes. I cant help but hope they overlook the monk-tanking portion of beastlords and dont nerf them. But I know that it really should get nerfed the same as monks.

Beastlords just tank too dang well compared to other non-plate classes, especially with the amount of aggro we can attain. Anybody in chain should do better, not phenominally, because we are adept martial artists and have those uber belly dancer moves.

About mods, I honestly dont play my mage enough on high end raids, I've retired that toon. But I hate making a stockpile of mod2s. I hate it even more when half of them rot or a druid picks one up to overnuke, gain aggro, waste cleric mana, and die.

Oh, MB and CH, they dont really affect me but for the sake of all others, i'm glad MB got nerfed. CH? nobody will notice a difference till later in PoP when some 65th ogre warrior has over 255sta.

/rant off
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Old 10-09-2002, 02:49 PM   #9
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all I can say is that as a 48 monk - I get the snot beat out of me regularly because I attain so much agro. Even when a plate class pulls, taunts and begs, by the time the mob is at 80percent HP - I have full agro. The only thing I can do is attack less often which seems pretty stupid. Tank agro has a been a primary concern for along time and it still isn't being addressed.
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Old 10-09-2002, 03:31 PM   #10
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Default To nerf or not to nerf.

I play a monk, Pally, Cleric and Warrior.

Monk: Great class but gets punted and eats heals like mad.

Warrior: Does everything to keep the mob on him but just cant do it with a monk in the group.

Pally: This is the only class besides Wizzy that can keep a mobs attn. I keep monks safe, and rouges backstabbing. But most dont want to play Pallys in this manner it tends to get them dead.

Cleric: I dought ill see a diffrencein the game.

I did address the consern of aggro to verant in emails, Phone calls, and in petitions in game. I hope you do the same =)
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Old 10-09-2002, 04:25 PM   #11
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Re: Monk - I think they're talking more of the 51+ game

Probably something along the lines of a point of diminishing returns on AC - something like what happens to INT/WIS casters when we reach 200 in that stat - the mana we start getting from that stat is less than it was before 200. Thats what it sounded like to me at least.
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Old 10-10-2002, 03:24 AM   #12
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My thoughts as a wizzy are...

Mod Rods - They are making mod rods a buff that the recipient can use on demand now. If they are gonna nerf mod rods the way they are then they should come up with a group mod rod spell. The have stated in so many words that the mod rod is more meant to be a 1 per person thing. Why not make it group or even MGB option for mage. Talking ot a few mages in game tonight this seems to be the general mage consensus and makes sense to me.

Complete Heal - This wont even hurt CH Rotations too terribly, the rotators will just have to rotate a little faster. And even then only if the tank has over 8500hp. Why 8500? Well mobs that you would use such a rotation on typically can deal 500dmg like it's nothing. So an 8k hp warrior would still see no diff. Maybe at 8500hp+ the tanks would notice a difference. Not a major loss.

Monk AC - "'Tis better to let people think you are a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt." That being said, I can't accuartely comment on the monk AC issue.

Manaburn - I play a wizard as my main. I can understand them wanting to aleviate groups such as the one at http://www.geocities.com/mana_burner/ and other similar groups across the other servers. I disagree with the 1 minute rule however. The reason I do is simple. Now when you have more than one MB wizzie on a raid you have to set up a Manaburn rotation. The same system they are trying to aleviate with the clerics is what they are encouraging with the wizards. I know that I for one will now be wary of having to wait 2+ hours because someone MB'd a mob 58 seconds before I did without my knowing it. They need to at least put in a check to prevent you form MB'ing a mob that has the effect still on it, otherwise they have potentially eliminated MB's effectiveness altogether.

Thos are my humble thoughts and opinions.
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Old 10-10-2002, 04:02 AM   #13
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1. MB: was needed, but yes, they need to prevent it from being wasted with this time limit now.
2. Monks: Bloddy crazy way to deal with the situation. Make a class that gets regularly thrashed worse at taking it??? Why not just up the melee abilities of the warriors/shadowknights/paladins to where they can hold the agro against a monks hitting better? I feel pity for those poor warriors..my stuns spin them around and around....trollie top!
The thing that really gets me is that they want to nerf a supposed 'advantage' that makes monks overpowered, while allowing the perpetuation of another. Clerics melee better than their hybrid counterparts in upper echelons, and still regenerate enough mana to effectively heal the group. Nerf Yaulp V and that problem goes away, thereby forcing the cleric into EITHER a melee role or a healing role, but NOT both. MWahahahaha!
3. CH: Not really that big a deal. Even the 'uber' tanks that have that much life get healed before they reach 0, or they'd die. Your actual hps is not as important as your 'effective hps' that is, how many hps are actually beaten down before a heal lands on you.
4. Rods: No comment, not a mage, not even a caster.
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Old 10-10-2002, 04:18 AM   #14
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Default Woot

I m sorry for ya guys but Like i m a druid i must be happy by this

yup yup

With MB or Mod rod CH chain, Druid don t be allowed to come in some place cause we are too bad, now like MB is nerfed DOT and Small nuke will be needed to kill High lvl mob

DROOD POOWWWAAAA
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Old 10-10-2002, 07:27 AM   #15
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I would just like to point out that it's not all mod rods that are being nerfed... just the 'Rod of Transvergance'. I know, higher levels think this is a bad thing. But since it's not all the mod rods... it's not as bad as people are making it out to be. Besides, using 1 rod every 60 seconds it's that big of a limit. Consider how many hitpoints it taps to use the rod, and how much mana it gives. If you are in a position to need continuous mana rods, then it's likely that you're going to also need someone to heal you while you use them.

As for CH... kinda sucks, but not really. Granted, CH is no longer a 'Complete Heal', but 7500 HPs is alot. Most characters don't have quite that many hitpoints. And as Varent stated, no one has yet to even reach the 10500 hitpoint mark that the spell originally healed. Granted, some people may have 9k hitpoints, and CH won't completely heal them. But it does give them back a great deal of what they lost. And if they do happen to have 9k hitpoints, it's likely that when the cleric does cast CH, they are probably not completely dead anyway since CH takes so long to cast. Chancesare, the character will still have 1k or so HPs left, so the heal for 7500 would put them back to around 8000 - 8500 HPs again. Also, like Varent said, it gives way to future heal spells being implimented later on.

Monks? I'm sorry... I don't know anything about them so I am not in a position to comment either way.

But the change to manaburn does effect me directly. My primary character is a high level wizard (not yet 60 but close). I can understand the reasoning behind this nerf (some people were just being plain selfish and were abusing their power). But, the choice of solutions just doesn't sit well with me. Yes, Manaburn is a very powerful effect. And yes, it does give wizards a great deal of damage potential compared to other classes. And yes, a group of level 60 wizards with manaburn could potentially over power most of the high level mobs. But it comes down to fair game play. If certain players are being selfish and abusive, add something to the game to make those persons pay for their actions. Don't take away from everyone else who isn't abusing those powers. And the idea of making it so the spell can only be cast on a single mob once every so often is ridiculous. It goes one step further toward removing the sense of reality from the game. How realistic is it that a spell would leave an effect when cast such that no others could cast the same spell on that mob? In truth, to balance out the game properly, if they are going to impliment such a change on a few spells/abilities, then they should do it across the board. Make it so that all spells can only be cast on a single mob once every so often. Make it so that 2 wizards could not cast Ice Comet on the same mob in the same time frame. They did it with DoTs, now Manaburn... why not do it with all damage spells. Personally I feel that such a change would suck royally, but logically speaking, if you're going to do it with some spells, you'd best do it with all spells. It's only fair. Either do it and do it right, or don't do it at all.

As far as manaburn is concerned, I would have found a better way to solve the problem. Maybe even make it so that MB didn't do 32k damage, or even make it so that MB left a residue on the mob such that it's resistance to another MB attack went up drastically. Another MB could conceivably still hit, but chances are it would be resisted. They made all these changes to the way mobs are handled, which mobs could be hit, how resists are done and so on.... wouldn't it have been easier (not to mention more fair) to add something like a special resist that was applied to a mob after it was hit with manaburn?

You asked, and I spoke my feeble mind.

-Cormanth

P.S. For all you druids out there loving the fact that this gives you a better standing in regards to killing some mobs... maybe Varent needs to add something that limits druids abilities to quad kite so darned easily.... it's such a pain to go somewhere to hunt, only to find that half a dozen druids have moved in and owned the zone.
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